Josephine: saint or sinner? (Who knows?)

[Portrait believed to be of Josephine, painted by  Appiani during her first voyage to Italy.]

I've had very interesting comments on this blog from a reader in Russia, concerning Josephine. "La Reine Margot" raises a number of questions, which I'm going to attempt to answer here. (Please keep in mind that it has been over a decade since I was deep into research into Josephine's world! There might well be new findings. Consider this an evolving discussion.)

Basically, La Reine Margot would like to know about the relationship between Josephine and Hypolite Charles. "I know that you have some doubts about a sexual relationship between Josephine and Charles." She'd like to know why I have doubts. 

First of all: lack of real evidence. There is only gossip. La Reine notes the saying, "Where there is smoke there is fire." True, but one learns when studying history that gossip is often used as a weapon, often intentionally. (As when the English planted the rumour that Josephine's daughter Hortense was pregnant by her step-father Napoleon.) Smoke clouds are sent up, if you will, to make people suspect a fire. One learns, too, that the partners of powerful men are often maligned—something now one sees often, as well. 

"Of course the Josephine's letters to Charles are fakes ... but what is the story of this fake? ... What is the reason for this hoax?"

It's impossible to know who created this hoax, but it's easy enough to see who financially profited from it: the biographer/historian who first printed it.

And from what sources come this affirmation? If I remember correctly there are two main sources: the dutchess d'Abrantes memoirs and those of monsieur Hamelin. Laura [d'Abrantes] and her co-author Balzac of course retold gossips. But were these gossips unfounded?

In short: I think yes.

Abrantes was mean in her memoirs with respect to Josephine, but keep in mind that they were published after Napoleon had been exiled, when she had a lot to gain by this stance. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) It's worthwhile noting that in Abrantes' letters to friends written while Josephine was alive, she was nothing short of worshipful in her descriptions of the Empress—a strikingly different point-of-view from that stated in her memoirs.

As for Hamelin's memoirs... If he lied, what was the reason? Perhaps he invented some details. but what was his purpose to lie about the very nature of the relationship of Josephine and Charles?

Why would Hamelin lie? He was notorious lier, for one thing. (For another: when was his memoir published? I tried, without success, to find out—but that might provide a clue.)

All Hamelin said was that he saw Charles's coat outside Josephine's room—and from that all is conjectured. Even if true, I think Charles and Josephine might well have had reason to be behind closed doors: counting the profits from their illicit financial endeavours and plotting future investments most likely (IMO). Remember: this is an ill woman going through a violent and early menopause. It's not impossible that she was having an affair with Charles; but it's not impossible that she was not

 Are there any others sources? if I remember correctly Bourrienne described that it was Junot who finally told the truth to Napoleon. I never understand the reason for what he decided to do it but I can't understand his reason to lie too. Louise Compoint of course had this reason. But he?

What did Junot have against Josephine? Josephine fired her femme de chambre  Louise Compoint for sleeping with him, for one thing. Louise did her best to malign Josephine after, and I wouldn't be surprised that she recruited her lover into this effort. (Ironically, Louise, later in need of money, was to come to the then Empress Josephine, who, never one to hold a grudge, gave it to her.)

Josephine had a number of male friends, but most notably Barras and Charles. She was a modern woman in this respect: comfortable in the world of men. Someone once said to me a long, long time ago: "She enjoyed the company of homosexuals." All this is conjecture, but I sense this might have been true. Before she became Empress, Josephine was a bohemian woman with artistic tastes.  

And the nature of the relationship Josephine and Barras? They certainly were friends and partners. But were they lovers? As for me, I think that they were. I suppose that this man was bisexual, but not gay. If he was gay, who was the father of one of the children of Therese Tallien?

Therese only had one child—a daughter, Thermidor—and Tallien was the father. I don't believe I've ever read that she had a child by Barras. (Again, let me know if I'm mistaken.) To my knowledge, Barras did not have any children. 

This child if I remember correctly was born in the chateau Grosbois and it was common knowelege that it was his child. And personally I can't believe that this canny and licentious man could help Rose without demanding sexual toll in return.

I'd be interested to know your source!

Barras was "repaid" for his help to Josephine many times over by the powerful financial contacts Josephine was able to provide to wealthy Island bankers she'd come to know as a Freemson. Dr. Catinat told me that in the exchange of goods and favours between Josephine and Barras, Barras was very much the winner. There was no call for a "sexual toll" in return. The claim that Barras must have been enjoying Josephine's sexual favours is based on the assumption, in part, that that is all a woman has to offer. 

When did Josephine's [menstrual cycle] stop? What was her age? 

You can understand that this type of information is not revealed! We can only guess. What we do know is that Josephine said she was pregnant by Napoleon while he was in Italy. It's later conjectured that she was lying in order not to have to join Napoleon in Italy. And then, again, it's conjectured that she was lying when she wrote to Napoleon to say she was very sick. 

But imagine that she was not lying: what if her menstrual cycle had stopped and she assumed it was because she was pregnant? If you look at the evidence—various letters, etc.—it's clear that she really was quite sick during this period of time. Dr. Catinat, who is a medical doctor (as well as a foremost expert on her life), suspects that she'd gone into an early menopause at the age of only 32. Frankly: this fits. It would explain why she thought she was pregnant (missed period), and why she was so prone to tears at this time.

On top of that, clearly she had something amiss, for she suffered fevers. Quite possibly she had some sort of infection. All this is during that famous trip to Italy with Charles and Junot and Hamelin. I find it hard to imagine a torrid love-affair with Charles while in such a state, and in such company.

As for Charles: he married quite late and never, to my knowledge, had children. No doubt he and Josephine were close ... and no doubt they were in secretly involved financially. It's possible that there was a sexual relationship ... but it's also possible that there wasn't. 

When I was in Paris last summer for the filming of the documentary about Josephine, I chatted at length with Bernard Chevalier, former curator of Malmaison and co-author of a biography about Josephine. I asked him: "If you could ask Josephine one question, what would it be?" And he said, "I would ask her about Captain Charles." And I said, "Me, too." 

Because, frankly, we really don't know. 

 

  • LaReineMargot

    Sandra, thank you for your response. Excuse me for not answered early. I had some troubles and now can with the greatest pleasure post my comment.
    Thank you for posting Charle’s portrait as I have never seen before none of his portraits. Yes, he is very handsome and If he was Josephine’s lover, I really can understand her choise))) I totally agree with you that nobody knows and for sure nobody will never know what kind of relations they had. But as for me… The better proof is that Napoleon, very intelligent and shrewd man, himself believed in it. And he never was a man who allowed to other people (family, friends) manipulate him. He had some doubts about “petit Charles” and his wife and he was confirmed in it by various reports. I don’t think he would had believed in Junot’s report if he had not had some doubts before. And as for Junot… He was Napoleon’s closest friend. As I know he was not a liar. And I don’t believe he was so in love with Louise Compoint to lie for avenge his lover – it was just a sexual liason.
    But anyway. For me it doesn’t metter if Josephine slept with Charles or not. I adore this woman with all her faults. She is my favorite historical character by far.

    About the letters. It’s funny that nobody didn’t asked Hastier to show the original letters when he published it. But their text is so silly if you compare it with other Josephine’s letters. It’s clear that she didn’t write it. But even in Correspondence de l’imperatrice Josephine that was published in 1997 by Chevallier and Catinat those letters are quoted. Real shame for all historians who didn’t want to check their sourses. And did the question about those letters was discussed in the documentary?

    Yes Laure d’Abrantes was mean with Josephine. But not only with her. She was mean almost with everybody she mentioned in her memoires and espesionally with Napoleon (just like madam de Remusat who tried to rehabiliteate herself after Napoleon’s exile).

    “Douze ans de ma vie” of Hamelin was published for the first time in 1920 in Paris revue (if I remember correctly). But I have not any idea when he wrote it.

    About Barras and his child with madam Tallien. In all books that I’ve read is mentioned this child. Source? I have never thought about it. Look what is written in French wikipedia in the article about Therese:

    Thérésa Cabarrus a un enfant avec Paul Barras, qui naît le 20 décembre 1797 au château de Grosbois, mais il meurt à la naissance.

    Mille fois merci pour votre reponse, ma chere Sandra!